Is it next week already?

[browneyedgirl]

Tolkki IS a genius after all. And, no matter what he does, or will do he has enough fans to cover his ass&defend him.
Its called Showbiz. And Elvis would be so proud!

There's just something I don't get.
Why those who believe, or at least try to understand Tolkki and his decisions are ass-kissers, while those who support the other members are not?

If you don't know, then nobody can tell you.
Just have a total "outsider" visit&read the two different forums, and you will get your answer. But, I know you won't like it.

[browneyedgirl]

You need a bandaid for those hit nerves, Mormegil.
I don't see any conspiracy theories being posted about TT. What&where are they? You are just like every blindfollowing fan, you'd swallow everything he says, regardless. I've been there years ago, so I know all the symptoms.

But, time will tell about all these things, won't it? So, don't go bonkers. But, hell, nobody cares if you do, so defend TT to the death, in the end it does not matter.

Meanwhile, if things don't work out the way you people want it, just find a few scapegoats to blame as always. Yeah, thats REAL mature.

[stratohawk]

You need a bandaid for those hit nerves, Mormegil.
I don't see any conspiracy theories being posted about TT. What&where are they? You are just like every blindfollowing fan, you'd swallow everything he says, regardless. I've been there years ago, so I know all the symptoms.

Here:
http://www.stratovarius.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=1

I try not to swallow anything from either Tolkki or the remaining members. Actually I don't really care about why the disbanded etc. etc. I'm just tired of the lame Tolkki-bashing in this forum that's all.

You are not the only one, Mormegil. The other ones, like me, like Beast_Pete, and some more, are just too tired and annoyed to participate in these discussions anymore.

But, time will tell about all these things, won't it? So, don't go bonkers. But, hell, nobody cares if you do, so defend TT to the death, in the end it does not matter.

I don't see myself defending Tolkki because I believe everything he says. I defend him because no one else seems to and it's seems unfair to me.
If everyone was blaming other members for this shit I would probably try to defend them.

What's up, BEG? Why can't you just accept that not everybody shares your opinion? Why do you go on, again and again, and call posters like Mormegil, like me something like idiots that are following TT blindly? You never got what we are talking about.

Meanwhile, if things don't work out the way you people want it, just find a few scapegoats to blame as always. Yeah, thats REAL mature.

You lost me. Who are these scapegoats and what are we the people trying to blame them for?

Give up, man. There's no sense in continuing this. You don't have to defend yourself.

[browneyedgirl]

And, whats going to happen when the truth, the REAL one, presents itself? In the future, I mean. On forums ALL OVER the Internet, people are posting that Tolkki has made some serious business blunders. Saana has came&gone. RR has came&gone. And, we all are just spectators in all this. Where is the hoopla that was supposed to happen with the release of these albums? Of course, all that is nobody's business--its just TTs career&life, so we should stay out of it, and just wait for the music. I'm looking forward to this Tuomo&Antti project, btw!

As for scapegoats, there are always a few that blame unsuccessful recordings&such on criticizers, etc. Its a general media thing, but it happens.

All any of us can do is watch&wait. Advice is fruitless at this point.

@Stratohawk, I'm NOT the only criticizer here, not by a LONG shot. So don't play that card of singling me out. It won't work. People have every right to their own opinion. This place won't turn this into an RR forum where there is no freedom of speech.

By your responses you have validated my posts.
TT IS a "sacred cow"!

[R.F.]

browneyedgirl, you are really too harsh. There is no point to answer such strange accusation in such a rude way.
Anyway Mr. stratohawk and Mr. Mormegil seem to be glancing accross the forum, but not actually reading it, because i think so called Tolkki bashers have pretty clear positions and points of view. I may declare mine - I wish luck to Tolkki and RR, but I want him to leave alone Stratovarius. His recent action (including that so called "last Stratovarius album") show that he wants no matter what make the guys to change the band name in order to fulfill his egoistic Othello-like wish to stay in memories as the all times leader of Strato. Isn`t it clear? Why Hansen did so, but Tolkki can`t? But please, do not use Tolkki`s words in answers - f.e. "you don`t know all the truth" etc.

[Mormegil]

Meanwhile, if things don't work out the way you people want it, just find a few scapegoats to blame as always. Yeah, thats REAL mature.

You lost me. Who are these scapegoats and what are we the people trying to blame them for?

Give up, man. There's no sense in continuing this. You don't have to defend yourself.

You're probably right.
No use to argue if the opponent answers to everything by blaming you for being a 'Tolkki's blind follower' and ass-kisser'.

I'll just clarify something first:

His recent action (including that so called "last Stratovarius album") show that he wants no matter what make the guys to change the band name in order to fulfill his egoistic Othello-like wish to stay in memories as the all times leader of Strato.

Now this is what I meant when I said "pulling out retarded conspiracy-theories out of their asses about everything Tolkki says."

[browneyedgirl]

browneyedgirl, you are really too harsh. There is no point to answer such strange accusation in such a rude way.
Anyway Mr. stratohawk and Mr. Mormegil seem to be glancing accross the forum, but not actually reading it, because i think so called Tolkki bashers have pretty clear positions and points of view. I may declare mine - I wish luck to Tolkki and RR, but I want him to leave alone Stratovarius. His recent action (including that so called "last Stratovarius album") show that he wants no matter what make the guys to change the band name in order to fulfill his egoistic Othello-like wish to stay in memories as the all times leader of Strato. Isn`t it clear? Why Hansen did so, but Tolkki can`t? But please, do not use Tolkki`s words in answers - f.e. "you don`t know all the truth" etc.

Well, R.F., when I was a kid my Mother said,"If you want to get along with people--don't discuss Race, Sex, Politics&Religion"
Its obvious she should have added Music to that list!

@Mormegil, thats only his OPINION&he has a right to it. Are you going to say he doesn't have a right to his own opinion?

Mormegil's response said it all right there.

[R.F.]

I'll just clarify something first:

His recent action (including that so called "last Stratovarius album") show that he wants no matter what make the guys to change the band name in order to fulfill his egoistic Othello-like wish to stay in memories as the all times leader of Strato.

Now this is what I meant when I said "pulling out retarded conspiracy-theories out of their asses about everything Tolkki says."

]

You have a counter-argument? Not listed among Tolkki`s smooth wordings? Maybe you can explain me why he gave away the rights and than, which means now is trying to release the last strato album with some secret and probably illegal methods? Isn`t there anything strange about the whole thing?

[Mormegil]

@Mormegil, thats only his OPINION&he has a right to it. Are you going to say he doesn't have a right to his own opinion?

Look who's talking. Since when have you respected my opinions on this matter and not call me an 'ass-kisser'?

You have a counter-argument? Not listed among Tolkki`s smooth wordings?

No and I don't care to have one before I know more about this. Also, talking smoothly doesn't always equal lying.

Maybe you can explain me why he gave away the rights and than, which means now is trying to release the last strato album with some secret and probably illegal methods? Isn`t there anything strange about the whole thing?

I do think this is strange. That's why I believe things aren't as simple as some people seem to think.
Rights to Stratovarius-name is a legal thing. Those are complicated you know.

I said I'd stop arguing about this but I continued. I plan to stop asap.

[R.F.]

You have a counter-argument? Not listed among Tolkki`s smooth wordings?

No and I don't care to have one before I know more about this. Also, talking smoothly doesn't always equal lying.

Not always, but very often. A classical method, I`d say. So I am trying to find out basing on the information I have and receive from all those statements. And the fact that I was banned on the RR forum after I confessed that I suspect that Tolkki may be lying just makes me think I may be right, `cause my words, as browneyedgirl always says, did hit the nerve. A man who has nothing to hide can answer every accusation. Tolkki did not manage to do this. This is how my opinion made up.

Maybe you can explain me why he gave away the rights and than, which means now is trying to release the last strato album with some secret and probably illegal methods? Isn`t there anything strange about the whole thing?

I do think this is strange. That's why I believe things aren't as simple as some people seem to think.
Rights to Stratovarius-name is a legal thing. Those are complicated you know.

I said I'd stop arguing about this but I continued. I plan to stop asap.

Actually we all may take a look. I am not sure, but if the transfer of rights was under the Finnish law, here we may see it - http://www.ulapland.fi/home/oiffi/lait/copyright.htm
A huge thing, have to look it through.
So, you actually have nothing to say against different suppositions about Tolkki spread on this forum. At least you could have been a bit more polite than.

[Verdades Parias]

Tolkki IS a genius after all. And, no matter what he does, or will do he has enough fans to cover his ass&defend him.
Its called Showbiz. And Elvis would be so proud!

There's just something I don't get.
Why those who believe, or at least try to understand Tolkki and his decisions are ass-kissers, while those who support the other members are not?

mmm...let me say this. Yes! I understand Tolkki, but, contrary of yours opinions, my opinions about him and his words, are that he is not a trustful person, i think he is egocentric, contradictory, and i'm not afraid of "thinking bad" about someone who i really admire musically. THAT, doesn't convert him in a "clean, pure, lovely and rational soul". You're not a "ass-licker", thats for sure. For Me Timo Tolkki showed too much about is personality, and his behavior, feels bad, very bad.
It's not a pain in the ass the sutuation for me, It's happends all the time, when you start to know people.
I'm a ass-licker of the rest?....Well, i really don't know them, so is imposible to have an opinion

We must accept us

[stratohawk]

Tolkki IS a genius after all. And, no matter what he does, or will do he has enough fans to cover his ass&defend him.
Its called Showbiz. And Elvis would be so proud!

There's just something I don't get.
Why those who believe, or at least try to understand Tolkki and his decisions are ass-kissers, while those who support the other members are not?

mmm...let me say this. Yes! I understand Tolkki, but, contrary of yours opinions, my opinions about him and his words, are that he is not a trustful person, i think he is egocentric, contradictory, and i'm not afraid of "thinking bad" about someone who i really admire musically. THAT, doesn't convert him in a "clean, pure, lovely and rational soul". You're not a "ass-licker", thats for sure. For Me Timo Tolkki showed too much about is personality, and his behavior, feels bad, very bad.

Good explanation. And I agree with most of what you write. To me TT doesn't seem trustworthy, too, but neither do the other ones. It's bad blood, to much mud-wrestling (we say that in German, dunno if it's applicable also in English ) from both sides. That's why I refuse to take one's side. I also don't attack the remaining Strato guys. The whole issue is just too confusing, it's impossible for us to get a clear picture of what was and is happening.

[Verdades Parias]

The whole issue is just too confusing, it's impossible for us to get a clear picture of what was and is happening.

Exactly!!

And the more talks of the sides, more frustrating, confusing, angry, impotence, for all the fans.
Even the 2009 Stratovarius Album (Tolkki), doesn't feel, for me, SOOOO good news, is like another brick in the mess.

All I want is music...

[eagledreamr]

Exactly!!

And the more talks of the sides, more frustrating, confusing, angry, impotence, for all the fans.
Even the 2009 Stratovarius Album (Tolkki), doesn't feel, for me, SOOOO good news, is like another brick in the mess.

All I want is music...

I think we have to let time do its job, wait for both side to decide what to do (what the name Stratovarius will become) and stop publicly arguing (I don't criticize, I just say it's annoying for us and brings nothing at the end, at least for the fans [exept more arguments])

[R.F.]

Good explanation. And I agree with most of what you write. To me TT doesn't seem trustworthy, too, but neither do the other ones.

I feel so sorry, because this is just the words for which I was banned by TT. I simply declared that by present moment nobody seems to be trustworthy, but...-___- But I am happy everyone gets the point now.

I think we have to let time do its job, wait for both side to decide what to do (what the name Stratovarius will become) and stop publicly arguing (I don't criticize, I just say it's annoying for us and brings nothing at the end, at least for the fans [exept more arguments])

It`ll be okay. You can see that arguments appear when someone gives a little piece of information, but keeps the rest. In that case it`s natural for different opinions to appear. A good example from RR forum:

exe_knignt:

Another question!

This is a "Stratovarius" album, so will the other guys gain all the income again,
even if they don't have even scratched the album on it's works?


Season_of_change:

If you read carefully all that have been said from every side, you'll see that situation is a bit more complicated than this.

Legal situations are not always that simple. Probably there are a lot of things that we don't know (and that we REALLY don't need to know)


TimoTolkki:

Wise words my friend...


exe_knight:

ok, but I'm still wondering it. Especially now that I didn't even get a straightish response...

Well, no comments, everything is clear. I think Jens is doing much better because he does not say anything until he has news. Anyway arguments will occur if the information comes measured out in doses. But everything will okay when the facts are revealed. This is the healing power of time =)

[Verdades Parias]

Good explanation. And I agree with most of what you write. To me TT doesn't seem trustworthy, too, but neither do the other ones.

I feel so sorry, because this is just the words for which I was banned by TT. I simply declared that by present moment nobody seems to be trustworthy, but...-___- But I am happy everyone gets the point now.

I think we have to let time do its job, wait for both side to decide what to do (what the name Stratovarius will become) and stop publicly arguing (I don't criticize, I just say it's annoying for us and brings nothing at the end, at least for the fans [exept more arguments])

It`ll be okay. You can see that arguments appear when someone gives a little piece of information, but keeps the rest. In that case it`s natural for different opinions to appear. A good example from RR forum:

exe_knignt:

Another question!

This is a "Stratovarius" album, so will the other guys gain all the income again,
even if they don't have even scratched the album on it's works?


Season_of_change:

If you read carefully all that have been said from every side, you'll see that situation is a bit more complicated than this.

Legal situations are not always that simple. Probably there are a lot of things that we don't know (and that we REALLY don't need to know)


TimoTolkki:

Wise words my friend...


exe_knight:

ok, but I'm still wondering it. Especially now that I didn't even get a straightish response...

Well, no comments, everything is clear. I think Jens is doing much better because he does not say anything until he has news. Anyway arguments will occur if the information comes measured out in doses. But everything will okay when the facts are revealed. This is the healing power of time =)

Yes time is gold right know...

Our heads really burns when somebody says to you: "Yes I do this, and I will do that", and after that, he says to you, "You don't know things behind the curtains". So the feeling is...He`s playing with us. I prefer silence, music, and no "proofs of how inteligent I can be" from Mr.Tolkki and Jens.

[Stratowarius]

Hear hear TT and JJ. You have to come down to our intelligens. Some of the fans heads are burning with strain

[Verdades Parias]

:fuckoff:

[Stratowarius]

I kind of like your argument. It is eloquent