SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

HinatAArcticA · Post by **HinatAArcticA** » Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:33 am

adrian9 wrote:I wonder is henkka would respect the original tony keyboard solos, I think they dropped the ball not including a re recording of mary lou, I love that one

I'm pretty sure the duo solos with the guitar will most likely be the same (Destruction Preventer @4:42), but as for the single-keyboard solos, I'm not sure, since part of the re-recording idea is that the song may sound a bit different because of the lineup. I believe Henkka has rightfully claimed his spot in the SA lineup, and I don't think him playing some solos in his style should be wrong for this particular release, without taking away any merit from the original solos, but I believe Henkka's sound has been a very big part of the band for over 10 years now. Solos like the one at the end of Wrecking the Sphere. But I'm pretty sure some solos will remain the same, or how they've been played in recent time live.

HinatAArcticA · Post by **HinatAArcticA** » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:44 am

Here's our first single's cover!

HinatAArcticA · Post by **HinatAArcticA** » Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:50 am

First sample from Kingdom for a Heart

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The solo is much better than what I expected, and the song sounds super tight and feels like it follows the original really well. I'm way more hyped than before!

AAAAAAAAAA · Post by **AAAAAAAAAA** » Sun Sep 07, 2014 3:35 pm

I believe Henkka's sound has been a very big part of the band for over 10 years now.

That is one of the problems with this band. He is a very poopy keyboardist, in my opinion!

KÖÖSKI TWIN · Post by **KÖÖSKI TWIN** » Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:21 pm

mmmmmm...... i really don't like the look of this guys...

They really looks as they don't have idea what is the water and the soap.

HinatAArcticA · Post by **HinatAArcticA** » Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:24 pm

KÖÖSKI TWIN wrote:mmmmmm...... i really don't like the look of this guys...

They really looks as they don't have idea what is the water and the soap.

Tommy does

robocop656 · Post by **robocop656** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:19 am

But....who is going to play the flute on letter to Dana?

HinatAArcticA · Post by **HinatAArcticA** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:05 am

robocop656 wrote:But....who is going to play the flute on letter to Dana?

Jens?

robocop656 · Post by **robocop656** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:21 pm

He can play the skin flute like a champ.

SatanicSmile · Post by **SatanicSmile** » Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:56 pm

SONATA ARCTICA - Kingdom For A Heart (OFFICIAL TRACK)

HinatAArcticA · Post by **HinatAArcticA** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:00 am

I have a similar feel to when Pariah's Child came up. Well, a feeling and a fact.

The fact is that... Pasi's mixing is way below Karmila's. I kindda grew to like it in Pariah's Child, but I'm not sure it's the best for Ecliptica, and this is where my feeling comes... I'm not sure I like the mix. I may grow into it, but... I dunno. The performance is great, I like it. But there is something about the mix... I don't mind clean mixes... many Strato/Edguy/DragonForce songs are SUPER CLEAN, but they sound good. Here however... it feels dry, I think that's the word... I feel so tempted to do some audio work on it myself lol, similar to what I did to Live in Finland's Blank File.

NeverendingAbyss · Post by **NeverendingAbyss** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:20 pm

They're playing in Baltimore tonight. Too bad I can't come I got a bday party to attend to

And I'm out of money lol

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:55 am

Listening to the new version of Kingdom of a Heart.

Clearly Tony felt it necessary to mix the drums above the rhythm guitars. I think that's about all I need to say about how this ones gonna sound.

robocop656 · Post by **robocop656** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:25 pm

I've always loved mikko karmilas mixing. Too bad they don't use him anymore. The drums do sound louder on this new one. But I like drums!

adrian9 · Post by **adrian9** » Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:37 pm

Rebel wrote:Listening to the new version of Kingdom of a Heart.

Clearly Tony felt it necessary to mix the drums above the rhythm guitars. I think that's about all I need to say about how this ones gonna sound.

and it seems that double tracking the voice was too much to ask for, I keep the original version closer now.

Mr cool Edit · Post by **Mr cool Edit** » Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:36 pm

MIKKO WHAT!!! OWO!!

bhueheheheh no joke , BURN FAT, UGLY NORDIC

YOU LOVE IT WHY YOU ARE GAY, METAL GUY!!

HinatAArcticA · Post by **HinatAArcticA** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:05 am

I did this cause I was bored... I'm not sure if it's even that noticeable, but w/e.

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I really wish Mikko Karmila had mixed this album.

HinatAArcticA · Post by **HinatAArcticA** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:01 am

Letter to Dana teaser... well, not really. But they played the original version live for the first time ever since 2001

HinatAArcticA · Post by **HinatAArcticA** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:16 pm

KÖÖSKI TWIN · Post by **KÖÖSKI TWIN** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:47 pm

you all are predicting that this new mix will be more weird that the original one?

I dunno, but i feel this in Rebel and Adrian9 words, really

i don't want be rude, but i don't listen the bass

i pass by the same time ago but the difference that i do a disaster of 55 tracks with one stratovarius song and with a cheap portable hardware.

I hope that you all no take it this in bad mood

HinatAArcticA · Post by **HinatAArcticA** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:04 pm

I really REALLY don't like Pasi's mixing at all

I'll end up doing what I did with Live in Finland's Blank File and attempt to remaster the tracks, even if I fail

Sounds dry... like Trinity and I HATE Trinity's mixing.

KÖÖSKI TWIN · Post by **KÖÖSKI TWIN** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:37 pm

really i think that by the sir tony kakko, was better keep the original tracks vocals, in one re mastered and new mix, the choir problem can be solved easy.

I notice that Sir, kakko, change some notes and no have the same performance that original tracks, of course, pass 15 years and Sir kakko is 15 years more old.

but by some reason, they are winning something with new remake, that we all don't know-

this is the risk that the band run when re - make one album after years, that the band can't do a better job compared with the original.

but in the end, one person that knows about i'm talking will understand it.

By all the fans, this will sound as a better sound

HinatAArcticA · Post by **HinatAArcticA** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:22 pm

I posted this on SA's forum...

Pasi needs to stop mixing for Sonata...

I don't wanna sound like an asshole, but from the 4 mixings he's done for the band, I only like one... and mind you, I like it a lot. The Sonata Arctica Open Air section of Live in Finland. But as for the rest, the full Live in Finland, that may some remember, I took Blank File and basically remastered the whole thing, adding the audience signing and stopping Tony's voice from piercing my ears.

For the Sake of Revenge is also a mix that I was never much of a fan. I feel that only a few tracks seem to work, but Jani's guitar sounds horribly distorted for some reason, and it's not his setting, because there's this 2004 video in Tavastia, and his guitar sounds clean and powerful, not like coming through a radio or something, always felt that was a thing for the guitar in For the Sake of Revenge. Like I said, some songs work but never was totally a fan of the mixing.

Pariah's Child felt really weird, because anyone can say anything they want about Stones Grow Her Name, but it was still mixed by Mikko Karmila, and you can feel it. The Wildfire duo sounds A LOT like Reckining Night, and I always appreciated that on both tracks. I guess Pariah's Child isn't the only album like that anymore, since this Ecliptica sounds like that too. A teacher in college told me "Once you study mixing and audio engineering, you'll never enjoy music the same, since you'll be able to notice when a mix is not as good" and he couldn't be more right. I'm really appreciating Mikko's mixing a lot more, and Mika Jussila's mastering. He mastered the albums all the way to the 2006 re-makes of My Land and Replica, both beautifully mixed and mastered tracks.

I stated this when news of this first came to light. This album NEEDED Karmila at the mixing desk. Pasi is just... not good enough to mix Sonata Arctica, and it shows the most in this album. It reminds me a lot to Timo Tolkki's album on Revolution Renaissance, Trinity, an album I never got into because the mix is TERRIBLE. Dry and boring. This album is not THAT bad, but is far... and I mean FAR below of what I listened on Reckoning Night, Sonata's Power Metal masterpiece in my opinion. I'm not sure if the band realizes this thing about the mixing, but the mix for Ecliptica Revisited sounds amateurish and reminds me MUCH MORE of the Ecliptica Sessions recordings, a bunch of demos, than the 1999 studio release. It makes me sad, cause I doubt this opinion would ever reach the band, and if it does, I'm gonna come up as a total dick/asshole, but this is really a big issue for me. Once the album releases, I'm gonna try my damn hardest to work on the tracks like I did with Live in Finland's Blank File, cause this album deserves more.

About the performance of the band, and I really want people to notice this but... Elias is really, REALLY stepping up his game for this one. Every single guitar part I heard in the samples, and I mean every single one sounds MASTERFULLY played, and it's something that FAAAAR exceeded my expectations for this album. I knew he would have a monumental task ahead, to follow on Jani's hardcore speed playing on Ecliptica, and I kept wondering how would he do here, and even though I knew he'd do well, I never expected for him to do THIS WELL. I'm seriously super impressed by his guitar playing here. The bass is actually well played, and reminds me more to Janne's than Marko's... too bad it's kinda lost in the background of the song because of... -sigh- the mixing. Tommy is also playing really well, and you can really tell he has come a long way from the Ecliptica days. He retains the speed and power, but here and there he adds new riffs that he could have never played back then. And again, Blank File's intro exposes the mix HORRIBLY. It sounds like a home-made demo. The original intro was really harsh, yet SUPER CLEAN. Here, it sounds more like something you'd listen in your garage... I can't find another way of describing it... but it's the mixing, not his playing. Henkka's playing is great. I believe it's on par with the original, if not slightly better. You can really feel his seal in the solos but... ugh, the keyboards get lost in the mix, like they did in Kingdom for a Heart's solo. I mean, what's up with UnOpened's intro? That's not a problem of playing, the sound was treated horribly. For Tony, I feel it's a mixed bag. He has parts I really like how he's singing, and I can't wait for the Destruction Preventer scream towards the end, and in this one the mixing (again????) is pretty bad when it comes to several layers of voice, and it really doesn't help him that his voice sounds above everything else, NOT UNITED as it should be. Yes, it's the lead melody, but that doesn't mean it should feel disjointed from the rest of the instruments. With that said, there are a couple sections where his singing feels a bit "stock", but I can assure you it'd sound better, was it mixed properly. Because his voice sounds a lot more genuine, and there are parts that sound really good, like that high pitch part in Letter to Dana. I really like his voice much more on this than in the original. His voice, not the singing, which is sometimes good, other times a bit dull. I do like it, but I do understand people who may say he sounds bored.

Overall, I have mixed feelings. Most of the musical performances are pitch perfect, and sound really good... but the mixing is seriously ruining many of the tracks. I don't know how much most people will notice this, but I know I do...

I've never missed Karmila as much as here... cause I can live with the Live albums sounding a bit strange, and Pariah's Child is a bit of an odd ball... though I wonder if it is because of the mix, and I said I missed Mikko there too, but to revisit Ecliptica, I feel the album deserves more than a regular treatment... and it REALLY deserved the original mixing/mastering duo that worked on the original record.

I don't even know how much the album will "improve" with the treatment I plan to give it after release, but I still want have to try and do something...

And yes, I'm totally buying this, despite everything... I'm just sad that this will hardly ever reach the band in the way I'd like it to reach them.

I can only hope, that for future albums Pasi will become "very busy" or something, and that they'll give someone else the mix/mastering task, but I don't see it happening. But as far as Ecliptica Revisited is concerned, it's spilled milk already... unless for a freak chance of luck they were like "Hey... you know what we should do?... Have Mikko mix this again and have it released as a digital thing only" or something.

P.S. I really love Elias' guitar playing in the record!!

I actually, for the first time, will understand if people like Rebel or Adrian HATE this album.

If I myself have problems with it

Like... may be for different reasons or whatever, but I can't defend the album at 100%, nor would I want to as it stands. I do like it, but I'd lie if I said I wasn't slightly disappointed, and well... there's my big post up there in the quote.

SatanicSmile · Post by **SatanicSmile** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:06 pm

Tony's voice is better here, but in some (not all) songs he sounds bored or something. Lack of emotion. Keyboards sound terrible everywhere, well played of course but the sound just sucks. I think it's clearly the biggest problem here, for me. Then comes mixing. Reminds of how good the original Ecliptica actually is.

Drumming is better, of course. Elias did very well too.

Not big deal, this is just another way to make money. At first I thought it was Japan-only thing, but it seems that it's worldwide thing with at least three different double vinyls.

KÖÖSKI TWIN · Post by **KÖÖSKI TWIN** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:27 pm

maybe you listen better to tony why he have a better sound, but maybe is desmotivation as you say.

I don't now really, I'm not follower of sonata Arctica.

About the guitar..... I think that jani have much better sound, maybe this is the point that do the diference actually.

I wish listen the new choir, why i see to Sir kakko much more single that the original or maybe is my imagination

robocop656 · Post by **robocop656** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:14 pm

I say strato re-record fright night and have pasi mix it.

HinatAArcticA · Post by **HinatAArcticA** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:26 am

robocop656 wrote:I say strato re-record fright night and have pasi mix it.

LOLNO

Though I wouldn't mind seeing a couple old songs re-recorded with the new lineup.

Southern_Cross · Post by **Southern_Cross** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:47 am

HinatAArcticA wrote:
robocop656 wrote:I say strato re-record fright night and have pasi mix it.
LOLNO

Though I wouldn't mind seeing a couple old songs re-recorded with the new lineup.

Yea yea I agree, that'd be interesting. Maybe not so far back as Fright Night. To be honest, I miss some stuff from Fourth Dimension and Episode.

In regards to Sonata Arctica though, I think Elias and Tommy are hitting pretty top notch from what I'm hearing so far. Henkka... never been too big of a fan of his playing, pretty steady so-so for me but he kinda is needed to Tony can perform easier onstage... Tony is Tony, I'm hearing some ups and downs here with him but mostly ups so far but the emotion seems to be on the down side... wondering how it would sound with Jani playing.

HinatAArcticA · Post by **HinatAArcticA** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:00 pm

Southern_Cross wrote:In regards to Sonata Arctica though, I think Elias and Tommy are hitting pretty top notch from what I'm hearing so far. Henkka... never been too big of a fan of his playing, pretty steady so-so for me but he kinda is needed to Tony can perform easier onstage... Tony is Tony, I'm hearing some ups and downs here with him but mostly ups so far but the emotion seems to be on the down side...

This, 100%
About Jani... I don't know. When looking for how a later Jani would have played the earlier tracks, I go to the 2006 versions of My Land and Replica and I don't think that would be a like deciding factor for Ecliptica Revisited to be better or worse. Jani is pretty darn amazing to say the least but again, I think Elias knocked it out of the park as far as his playing part is concerned.

KÖÖSKI TWIN · Post by **KÖÖSKI TWIN** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:40 pm

the motive of this discusion is "The sound"

The sound about musicians intrument can change all one album

if elias, build the same guitar but with a bit more "ambient" effects and no so dry, we are speaking of a better "Performance"

In a guitar, you can build a epic sound and very rock hard one plating with dry/wet reverb affect, some shorts guitars delay, one soft octaver can help depending the song and guitarist style.

in a album isnt only the musician skills.

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SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

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