SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by Southern_Cross » Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:45 pm

HinatAArcticA wrote:
Southern_Cross wrote:In regards to Sonata Arctica though, I think Elias and Tommy are hitting pretty top notch from what I'm hearing so far. Henkka... never been too big of a fan of his playing, pretty steady so-so for me but he kinda is needed to Tony can perform easier onstage... Tony is Tony, I'm hearing some ups and downs here with him but mostly ups so far but the emotion seems to be on the down side...
This, 100%
About Jani... I don't know. When looking for how a later Jani would have played the earlier tracks, I go to the 2006 versions of My Land and Replica and I don't think that would be a like deciding factor for Ecliptica Revisited to be better or worse. Jani is pretty darn amazing to say the least but again, I think Elias knocked it out of the park as far as his playing part is concerned.
I agree, Elias is kicking some butt here but given the opportunity, I Jani could be dragged in to play a little of this, I'm just curious how it would go. He hasn't lost his touch, from what I've seen lately.

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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by KÖÖSKI TWIN » Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:22 am

hoooooooo Impressive vocals skills really :shock:


I like a lot the vocals composition, is impressive

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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by HinatAArcticA » Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:03 pm

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I love how they tease us with Kingdom for a Heart, instead of a solo from Destruction Preventer or something. I mean, it's not like Kingdom for a Heart is already out anyway, right?
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by HinatAArcticA » Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:44 pm

Guys... I know asking for a serious reply in this forum can sometimes lead to some shenanigans, but... am I the only one who REALLY misses Mikko Karmila and Mika Jassila? :(

Karmila mixed everything up to Stones Grow Her Name and Jassila mastered everything up to the 2006 versions of My Land and Replica... And you can say anything you want about SGHN but songs like Wildfire III don't sound as dry as Pariah's Child or the new Ecliptica... and I'm really missing both Karmila and Jassila all of the sudden.
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by adrian9 » Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:11 pm

Mikko Karmila and Mika Jussila are both pivotal in the sound of the emerging finland metal scene from the 90s and 00s, I bet Mikkor Karmila thaught one thing or two to timo tolkki of mixing (remember timo mixed twilight time and dreamspace almost by himself) also is worth metioning Tero Kinnunen who carried that sound to the 00s with his work on nightwish and many other bands (brother firetribe anyone?..no? ...ok)

my favorite producer is Kevin shirley anyways
or Quincy Jones...
Roy Thomas Baker is also very good.
Roy z
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by Rebel » Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:24 am

HinatAArcticA wrote:Guys... I know asking for a serious reply in this forum can sometimes lead to some shenanigans, but... am I the only one who REALLY misses Mikko Karmila and Mika Jassila? :(

Karmila mixed everything up to Stones Grow Her Name and Jassila mastered everything up to the 2006 versions of My Land and Replica... And you can say anything you want about SGHN but songs like Wildfire III don't sound as dry as Pariah's Child or the new Ecliptica... and I'm really missing both Karmila and Jassila all of the sudden.
That combination has a very specific sound they bring out, and it's one that I'm a big fan of. It's possible that some bands just think they're getting too pricey. I know Mika Jussila's Mastering costs about $1250 for a 52 minute album
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by HinatAArcticA » Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:13 pm

Here we have a review.
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by KÖÖSKI TWIN » Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:50 pm

pasi mix this? the bassist?

ok... my be i'm the only one that make mosters mixes

really MONSTERS MIXES HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! :twisted:
:lol:

sORRY! bur the drums sound as my casio (keylight keys) keyboard, i dont want be offensive, but the drummer dont had better sound? :roll:


Edited: seriously..... i like it much more the original see "Replica"

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and if i start to paste, i can down down the revisited..... I'm sorry :cry:

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hahahah sir jens johanssson, meet yourself my powerful key

Post by KÖÖSKI TWIN » Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:15 pm

:D

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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by Rebel » Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:13 am

HinatAArcticA wrote:Here we have a review.
I really doubt we'll bother to review this. Every time we've ever had a writer to cover Sonata Arctica, they've either quit or been dismissed for unrelated reasons (This has happened 3 times). I've considered reviewing some of their old albums, but I'm convinced the band is cursed.
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by HinatAArcticA » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:30 am

From Another Reviewer:
I will say that 8th Commandment isn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be. Tony's high note right after the solo is almost spot-on, and he ends the song slightly differently than the 1999 version, but in a good way.

But besides the occasional additions here and there, it's almost a carbon copy of the original with a different mix. Tony really does try to hit all those high notes, even if he doesn't do so live. I really do like the trancier keyboards in UnOpened, though.

I'll put it this way: if SA had released this album this year, and Silence was their debut album, people would be putting it in their top 10 metal albums of the year. If any other band had released this in 2014, they would be heralded as one of the most promising current power metal bands. But as a rerecording, it comes off as rather superfluous. I kinda wish they had made some changes to the original, much like the 2006 versions, because there's absolutely no incentive for me to listen to these rerecordings over the originals.
Rebel wrote: I really doubt we'll bother to review this. Every time we've ever had a writer to cover Sonata Arctica, they've either quit or been dismissed for unrelated reasons (This has happened 3 times). I've considered reviewing some of their old albums, but I'm convinced the band is cursed.
Understandable.
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by KÖÖSKI TWIN » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:37 am

I always say. But , well, maybe im inexpert in this to say it

When one band re build one albun, this band have the risk of can't do a better job that the original.

why the music is created by persons, and one person never have the same energy in his life. (Emotional)

If I was the sonata artica producer, i dont put in my mind re- build the album.

The most "Correct" was a re mastered with last technology, maybe add new songs and re mix all again

I dunno if sonata arctica is victim of a cursed, I think that they are taking wrong choices.

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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by HinatAArcticA » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:18 am

Some NEW SAMPLES

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Gotta say again, Elias is killing it. 8th Commandment's intro sounds incredible. Also to notice is the other slow intros for FullMoon, Letter to Dana and Destruction Preventer, which I'd dare say, sound better than the original.

And then there's I'm Haunted... which sounds WAY better than what I expected by this point! :shock:
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by KÖÖSKI TWIN » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:24 am

youtube and his horrible sound...

i listen it into a box. but is by youtube, is necesary listen the original sound

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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by HinatAArcticA » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:38 pm

A very interesting thing to notice is that, where Blank File or Destruction Preventer have been moved to a lower key... I'm Haunted is actually in a higher key than the original
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by HinatAArcticA » Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:14 am

I found an article some may find interesting! :)

From the article:
...Now the age old question: fans are usually skeptical when a band rerecords their material, why should fans buy this?

Klingenberg states bluntly: “I don’t know if you should. It’s just a different take on the same songs. The feeling is different of course because we are older and it’s different dudes doing it. If you first fell in love with Ecliptica then you might hate this one, but you might look at it as another side of the coin.”
Also to note is that I Can't Dance has been leaked or something... it's here:

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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by KÖÖSKI TWIN » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:16 am

hahahahahah!!!

I start to like sonata artica, they ins't the classic metal close ass :lol:

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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by HinatAArcticA » Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:02 am

And here it is at last... I'm Haunted

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And it's amazing... some will say this is how they should have worked Blackout instead of Flag in the Ground
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by HinatAArcticA » Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:39 am

ECLIPTICA - REVISITED

The Songs

Blank File: Tony is doing a great job with his voice, rising it when it's neccesary. The guitar solos are really nice, not so much the keyboard. I don't like the sound Henkka used for the keyboards, and the solos are often lost in the rest of the mix across the entire album. Drums are solid.

My Land: Glad to see them do the original version, without the acoustic break during the final chorus. Once again, I really enjoyed the guitar work on this track. The song's ending reminds me much more to the version from Ecliptica Sessions, the demos for the album, with the voice work.

8th Commandment: Most interesting part of this song, is the second solo. Elias is doing a really masterful job with the solo. There's a strange mysticism to it that wasn't there in the original recording. It's hard to explain but easy to listen. It's really nice. The keyboard solos again do not impress me though. It's a pretty solid track as it stands.

Replica: Pretty standard track. I don't think this one is better than the 2006 version, but it's solid overall. Again, Elias doing a very good job when required.

Kingdom for a Heart: This one is horribly average. The lack of the "treasures" before "and crowns" during the choir is really missed. The acoustic break is alright, but this one probably is the most average track in the entire album. Not really a fan.

FullMoon: Again, the best part of this song is Elias. The solo is very different from Jani, but this is one where I'll dare say it's actually better than the original. The mysticism from 8th Commandment is back for this one. It's a very nice solo. The intro is I think the only real part where Henkka really shines. The intro is again, probably better than the original version. other than that, it's FullMoon Tony rises his voice in sections, and the song gets livelier towards the end.

Letter to Dana: Tony sings some parts different than the original, rising his voice in sections where it used not to be like that. it's nice, and again, Elias is doing a great part. I wasn't sure Tony could hit some of the high notes in this one, but he can, and sounds really nice. I never was a fan of this song though. I like the 2008 remake better, the Return to Sender version if you will.

UnOpened: Would have been a better single than Kingdom for a Heart, but I guess they didn't want to reprise the 1999 single. The song is alright, but again, the keyboard is just not on point. I don't know how much is the performance itself, the sound Henkka chose, or the mix. The song is alright, but hardly anything special.

Picturing the Past: Once again, gotta notice Elias on-spot performance. Tony again rises his voice in sections really well. Again, a pretty alright track. I was never a fan of the original. I like this one more just because Tony is not... excesivly high, but that's debatable.

Destruction Preventer: The intro is really nice. I always thought Jani's solos in this particular song were very characteristic of his style, and it does show, as Elias style is way more clean, but maybe not as virtuous. Some may miss Jani in particular in this song, I again think Elias does a great job, but this is one where you can feel the different styles in a very marked way. Tony's scream towards the end lasts longer than the original, but have to conssider it's on a lower key, but sounds clean and really nice.

This one in particular JUST BEFORE Tony screams EEEENDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD In the split moment between 6:03 and 6:04, a strange sound is there.... a TSHRRR or BRRRRR I think drescribes it better or something like that... it's high pitched and sounds HORRIBLE. How nobody noticed, and how that is in the final record is embarrasing... add that to the "toc-toc-toc" when the song starts, during the fast intro, and all you have is signs pointing to Pasi's terrible work. I'm sorry, I really am. I know he surely is a very nice guy and all, but at a professional level, I'm just horribly disappointed.

I'm Haunted: Arguably the best song in the album, everyone is doing a great job for this one. Unlike Flag in the Ground, this song is not a re-do, but a re-record only, and works better like this. It really feels like a brand new power metal song.

I Can't Dance: The song is alright, but in my opinion, I always believed this was just an average song by Genesis, so I don't really mind this song too much. It's a hard rockish song, that collides pretty harsh with the rest of the album, and would have been better on Stones Grow Her Name. I personally don't care for this one, but there's an audience out there for this one. It's nice! :)

The Mix and Production
It's TERRIBLE to say the least. The mix and mastering are dry and amateurish at best. There are songs that particularly suffer, and it just feels incomplete to say the least. There are decisions that I don't understand, such as putting Tony way ahead in the vocals, and virtually deleting the keyboard solos from all the songs, no exception. The bass is hard to listen, and that those remarked notes on that bass at the very end of Destruction Preventer, the final dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb sounds just HORRIBLE. It's like Pasi didn't know how to make the bass stand out there, so he just compressed the track to the 7th Heaven and then just rose the volume. It sounds really bad. The whole audio production is just below what should be considered acceptable. it's below Pariah's Child.
This is the one thing that I'd definitely would change. If I was an exec at Nuclear Blast, I would have probably said... "I'm sorry, but you have to take this back to the mixing desk. it's just not good".

Overall...
The album works in many sections, and Elias is really stepping up his game on this one. The voice is good, for most tracks, but in others just lacks a lot of emotion. The keyboards seem to have missed the mark to me, but I don't know how much that's to blame to the HORRENDOUS mix. Drums are good, and the bass, though well played, also gets lost in the mix. Some tracks even have really weird sounds that sound like leftovers of a bad mix. Pasi should not mix another Sonata Arctica album. I know I will sound like an ass, but it's just the truth. Sooner or later someone should step up and tell him. I don't know if the band is trying to cut costs with Pasi rather than having someone else mix/master it, but the music is taking a toll... Maybe not even Karmila/Jussila, but someone else... maybe they should get Matias to do it :D Nemesis and Elysium are masterfully produced. The guitars in Nemesis are some of the best produced metal guitars I've ever listened to. I really wish Ecliptica Revisited was the last affected record by this problem, but I don't think it will change... unfortunately :(

My veredict? If you are a die hard fan of the original, SKIP THIS ONE. But do listen to I'm Haunted, since it's a really good track. I could maybe recomend also 8th Commandment and FullMoon but the fact is that the poor audio production is really holding back this one, and I'll totally understand if people skip this record. If you are not a super purist however, give it a listen. It sounds better on a good stereo system, and you may find a couple nice surprises!
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by Rebel » Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:40 am

HinatAArcticA wrote: The Mix and Production
It's TERRIBLE to say the least. The mix and mastering are dry and amateurish at best. There are songs that particularly suffer, and it just feels incomplete to say the least. There are decisions that I don't understand, such as putting Tony way ahead in the vocals, and virtually deleting the keyboard solos from all the songs, no exception. The bass is hard to listen, and that those remarked notes on that bass at the very end of Destruction Preventer, the final dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb sounds just HORRIBLE. It's like Pasi didn't know how to make the bass stand out there, so he just compressed the track to the 7th Heaven and then just rose the volume. It sounds really bad. The whole audio production is just below what should be considered acceptable. it's below Pariah's Child.
This is the one thing that I'd definitely would change. If I was an exec at Nuclear Blast, I would have probably said... "I'm sorry, but you have to take this back to the mixing desk. it's just not good".
Finnish bands that can afford Karmila/Jussila and go with other production teams should be exported.
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by HinatAArcticA » Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:58 pm

Even Gather the Faithful was better produced, and I'm not even much of a fan of that album other than a couple of songs. Maybe they should ask Jani to mix their stuff? :huh:

I wonder if there's even the slightest unrealistic chance that they would ask Matias to mix their stuff, he's so good............................ nah, I'm just daydreaming :roll:
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Re: SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

Post by robocop656 » Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:32 pm

Aaaand its on Spotify.

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